A Look@Social Media

Hello, I'm Dick Foth, and I'd like to welcome you to known stories to make sense of it all. These stories are what I call walking books, real-life people, different places, different ages, different cultures, and I want to have some conversations with them across disciplines and generations and cultures in order to encourage a kind of knowing fresh lenses through which to see the world. One of those lenses will be Scripture, or more specifically, Jesus of Nazareth, whose life I believe changed the course of the history of the world. So thanks for listening in. Great to have you with us. So today is the second part of a two-part conversation with Justin and Mackenzie Matthews. These are friends of mine who work with young people. They love each other, and they love young people. Middle schoolers up through young adults are sort of their bailiwick. Whatever that means, I love that word, but whatever that means, that's where they live and spend their hours and their days. And recently we had the chance to deal with probably the most significant central issue in human dynamics, certainly in the last decade, as it relates to young people. Here we go. A question for the day is, when I say social media, what do you think of? The first word that comes from a line is fascinating, followed by inspiring and dangerous. Okay. Do you have any words to add to that? I think that covered everything. I think of social media as from a middle school or hospital perspective, I would say it is connection as middle school and high school kids see as connection. Okay. All right. So in 2007, I think this date is right. In 2007, the iPhone, the smartphone was introduced, and it has changed the world, literally changed the world. So talk to us to me into our listeners about what you see as the things that are fascinating, inspiring, and dangerous. Just jump into that. And I'll just have a little conversation here. Totally. Well, I would say, I mean, I have and love all the social media as myself. So I enjoy them all. I think they're really fun. I connect with people near. I connect with people far. They're fun for me. And I think. So all the social media? I know. I should do it. Well, let me see if I know them all. I'm older, so I know Facebook, obviously. Twitter. Snapchat. Instagram. Yes. Wasn't there something called Vine? Yeah, but that I don't think. Yeah, I think Vine's gone now. It's gone. It's a touch and go. So that didn't count, but there will be others coming along. Totally. Okay. So that's all. Go ahead. Yes. I don't have Vine, but I have all of the other ones. Yes. And I enjoy them and use them. I see a lot, especially young people, you know, high school college, even young adults, peers, and the way they use social media, I think that's always really, really interesting. Within each of the social media, you know, there's some things when you think about what is dangerous about them. The amount of just the numbers that are associated to certain things, like how many followers you have or how many people are affirming or liking the things that you're doing. There's a thing on Snapchat called a snap streak where if I send you a photo and you send the photo back to me in a day, we get a number. And if however many days we do that in a row, it adds to our numbers of saying how long our snap streak is. So recently, I was spending time with this friend of mine that's a high school student and she was showing me her snapchat or she had her snapchat open or something. And I was looking at her homepage and she had a snap streak that had like 570 something days on the snap streak. And I was like, get out of town. I was so curious about that and asking her about that. And I was like, is this real? And she's like, oh, she gave her login. When she went to summer camp, she was out of service range. And she gave someone else her login so they could log in and like send something for her just to maintain that number. So the idea of that number being such a big deal. Okay, so it sounds to me that what some people called connection other people would see as competition. And when we chatted before, you said something about comparison that social media perhaps is less about connection behind the scenes than it is about comparison. And I think the line that was said was comparison is the thief of joy. So, Justin, you work with what age group? I work with middle school, high school, and college. Okay, so let's just look at middle school. Okay. What would the youngest middle schooler be? 10 years old? 11? I think it's like 11 to 14-ish. And they're on social media. Oh yeah. So, talk to me about, give me a couple of anecdotes about how you have seen social media work with your age group. Yeah, and so I think of Instagram, that's the social media I have. I don't have Snapchat. And I look at Twitter for almost my news to kind of get the news. And Instagram, you can kind of get that with Instagram, the news. But for the most part, it is. By news, you mean like World News? Yeah, World News, Sports News. But Instagram is your telephone. Yeah, more or less of this age. Yeah. And I remember a student, and when McKinsey now we're living in California, I remember a student would go onto her Instagram and she would follow like thousands and thousands of people just so they would follow her back. And then after two or three weeks, she would go through and then unfollow all these people. And I remember talking to her about this. I mean, how long does this take? And she's like, well, the last time I did it, it took four hours, four hours to go through her friend group, just to unfollow people. So it made it look like she had more followers than people she's following. And so that is very true even here in Colorado with middle school students. Middle school students, they, they're very, very insecure. And they want to have this number associated with them. And it's a very big comparison thing. Every single student wants to, first off, have more followers than people they follow. So they want that number to be bigger. And I remember someone talking about a ratio. And they call it like your follow ratio. And I just think of that. And I think of the amount of hours and time put into this for something that for I would assume a parent just seems so silly. But for a middle school kid, I would almost say that it's not just silly or it's it's more than just silly. It's it's their life. Yeah, absolutely. So at the heart of this discussion, we find comparison. And comparison has a twin called competition. Nothing wrong with comparison and nothing wrong with competition. The exception being how often, how long, how intense, to what end? Why are we doing it? And things that are constant, if you have constant comparison and constant competition, and there's no other metric by which to evaluate things, it can become very challenging. It sounds like disease. Not disease, but disease. Yeah. That that it is a it is a way of establishing my identity every day, every hour. I'm working on who I am. And I get that from you. I you my my network. Right. So if if you, you know, we talk about cyber bullying, but there is a sense in which, especially for younger folks, it sounds like it could be cyber intimidating or cyber jailing because I freeze you out if you will. Is that am I overstating that? I don't think so. I think today students are are always comparing themselves, no matter what it is they're doing, but it's sports. Which is human nature. Right. Which is sports. It could be grades. It could be who you're dating, who you're not dating, all this stuff. They're always comparing each other. And now it's even more dangerous because they have a number that associates with how they compare to someone else. So so I don't only get a grade in my math class. Right. I get a grade in my social class. Right. And anything that they post, they're waiting for that affirmation. So the second that you post something, you're looking at how many likes it's gotten. People were a fresh at over and over and over again. So they can see how many numbers they're getting, how liked that thing is. So there's almost like anxiety filled with that. I knew a high school girl who said, Oh, if I don't have 50 likes on a picture, I'd delete it. It's embarrassing. You know, there's that response that's like, Oh, if it's if I'm not, if I'm not getting that affirmation of I try to put something and they spend a lot of time in, I mean, I would say some high school kids and all high school kids are young people in general spend a lot of time thinking about what they're putting on their Instagram specifically. So well taken photos. They're thinking of captions or spending a lot of time thinking about or curating what they're choosing to put out there. So this is this is this is the 2000 or the or the 21st century version of putting my best foot forward. Yes. That phrase comes from those old colonial things where you had silver buckles on your shoes and you see these pictures, these guys standing with one foot in front of the other and it was literally putting your best foot forward that that's the beautiful that catches the intention. This is that. But if I'm a soccer player, let's say, it isn't just that now I'm comparing myself to the other soccer players in my class or in my school or in my county or in my league. I'm comparing myself to a kid in Mumbai or in Edinburgh. That seems to me that that that's overwhelming for me and I'm an old dude and for somebody just getting their identity seems to me that is so counterproductive in the long haul that it's just debilitating to a person to a person if you will. So on the one hand it's fascinating and inspirational because you can you can get cute videos that are you know or inspiring talks all of that. But but it's the intro it isn't that I just go into internet and get the inspiring talks or get those passed around. It's that when I'm communicating with you at some level you're evaluating me. Is that right? Or to what degree is that correct my statement? I mean I think when it's young people looking at young people there is a there is a bit of evaluating or comparing but I feel like sometimes that lens is just more inward thinking of how they're not those things. Not necessarily maybe evaluating but I think sometimes it's like cyberbullying sometimes that is like very much evaluating or judging the people that they look at but if it's someone is perceived to be a professional or someone is perceived to be as impressive I feel like it's like a different category. Okay so so you guys are investing your whole lives with young people from from middle school through young adulthood okay could you do what you do in terms of trying to have positive influence encourage the following of this Jesus of Nazareth person could you do what you do today without social media? I believe so. I I almost never post anything on social media. I think the biggest thing about social media the reason I have it is I try to stay relevant right to to middle school students I'm no longer a middle school student so I kind of don't really know what's going on and I think middle or I think social media kind of keeps me in that loop a little bit longer but to say that I could I do this without social media I say absolutely. And how would you do that without social media? I mean there's there's a lot of ways to communicate there's a lot of ways to be in each of those lives whenever whenever we well I on Thursday nights I meet with a with middle school kids and we normally go to what we call man night and we go and do we do man things on man night normally it's like eating wings and stuff like that and not using napkins and yeah yeah and so we do we do that and then I always say that whenever we get there I don't think anybody's really ever on their phone I would say for the most part just because they know that in our small group that we have on Wednesday nights that you're not allowed to be on your phone so that's a rule on Wednesday. Yeah yeah you're not allowed to be on your phone and I think it's they've realized that being without your phone or without social media while you're all together is fine like even when I took guys to camp I've taken my small group to camp three times from three years and every year I collect their cell phones when we get to camp because I don't want them to be on their cell phone the whole time you want to experience whatever right and I remember the first the first year it was like a it was a battle every kid's like why can I have my phone all this stuff and I I kept telling that I said hey you just gotta trust me I promise it's better I promise it's better just trust me and then I remember the next year it kids just kind of gave their phones willingly here does here's my phone don't need it for the week and then in eighth grade I remember there's about four or five new students like we have to give our phones up and I remember a student looking at him going hey it's way better without your phone and yeah and so I really believe that our time at least the time that I get to spend with middle school students I believe that they truly believe that it's better without their phone because we get to hang out with one another and so I do believe that I could do what I do without social media I think sometimes it does make it a little easier and I also think it helps me promote what we're doing much better so so it's an informational tool absolutely to get the word how about you we can oh yeah for the you can getting the word out yeah that's I mean it's huge yeah I use it for I mean I hardly ever print anything anymore because everything is a lot of you know trying to do advertising or building new relationships that's where it's like a really effective way to do that I think with relationships that we already have it's the ability to know things that are happening in their lives like I can see something and ask them about it later like I remember especially with some high school kids or something where a high school kid had tweeted something about like very aggressive some very aggressive tweet which is really angry and I was like hey what's going on like Twitter told me Twitter told me that you said this and it was you know it's able to see the students in different elements of their lives and being able to ask them and connect with them about things going on with them I think it's possible to do it outside of the realm of social media but I agree that it makes it easier because you can just know the things that they're choosing to put out there and you can ask them about that or you can say this is such a big part of your life I can be curious about it so you're doing the evaluating kind of you know because if it's a feeling I have but it isn't just that I'm saying it to you I'm saying it to 38 other people and learning that 38 other people have 38 different opinions as something it comes with maturity isn't it and I'm still learning bad and I you know it's been a while I heard somebody say I don't have a relationship with people anymore I have relationships with my devices there's there's something about the idea of addiction connected with I mean I think there are even camps now for people who feel addicted to their devices if you will are you aware of those camps or have you heard about that I have heard about them I'm not aware of any or I don't like know of anyone who's been there but I have heard of them because I was I was reading the other day about that so okay here's here's this platform for communication I mean back you know almost a hundred years ago now the telephone came into existence and that became a new thing it changed the culture the automobile a hundred years ago it came into existence it changed the culture the credit card came into existence it changed the birth control pill in the sixties came into it changed the culture and forever it will be changed it cannot go back so this is true of the of the telephone made personal because it's not just a telephone it is in fact this this a storage center for my life I'm a parent let's say of a 14 year old or an 18 year old and I want to help the student know how to how to handle this arena and not have the arena handle me okay we so thoughts or any other thoughts you have you can go anywhere you want with this I'm I'm a very firm believer in accountability I believe that that what you post online and what you look at on your phone and all that stuff you need to be accountable for I know parents that say that their student isn't allowed to have their phone pass 9 o'clock their phone goes in the bedroom with mom and dad and they're allowed to look at anything they want to look at and I know all all all sorts of kind of things like that and you mean the parents yeah are able to look at their parents yeah the parents are able to look at their their their son under the daughter's phone that's an understanding yeah and it's understanding it's one of those things that like I know a friend of mine Bob with his daughter he was saying that I paid for this phone so I'm letting you know right now that I'm allowed to look at anything on your phone so if you want a phone this is the this is the kind of the contract we're in and and at first I would it was pretty it was pretty bad but now now Riley Bob's daughter just gives it to Bob willing he absolutely sure we I get it and so I always say that parents should always have some rules for for their phone I mean today I mean we have the world at our fingertips always in our pocket and yeah and and I just feel like that could be that could be super dangerous and and to be honest with I mean you can access anything on Instagram on Twitter on Facebook I mean you can you can you can see anything you want like basically and so I really believe that parents should be involved and invested in that and and I even had a parent this was a years ago that said well hey can you check in on my son's Instagram like every couple weeks and let me know what's going on and I remember saying no but I'll show you how to do that I'll show you to how to set up an accountant so I just think that the more invested you are the better I really believe that it could be really dangerous without any accountability so so a parent communicating with the child vice versa sets the stage for whatever other communications the child has or the young person has with folks beyond that circle so step one is let's us have communication right understand and this is true in a home when I was growing up we didn't have that we still had to have okay these are the guidelines of it so this is just guidelines for different arena right right it's just that arena is very active and it's pinging me it's coming after me because I'm a dollar this is all about money for the people who are who are setting things up that's not being cynical at the end of the day any program any kind of thing that's going on somebody's making money off that right that's how it is that's the macro picture the the micro picture is how do I help my child my young adult learn to manage life that comes in on that little screen or on that I in that is that fair to say that I was so any any other thoughts yeah whenever I talk to parents about this I always encourage them to be curious and try to like come to their students with curiosity saying hey tell me about this or things that you hear like asking about the new Snapchat update like I heard that you can see where people are in a map like I would love for you to show me that it's not something you see or asking them hey what do you think are the problems with this where do you see this in in your friends like I think it's always a win if you can get your kids talking about those types of things or having conversations about how it's dangerous trying to trying to shift their perspective and be curious in a way that is a is a conversation that is safe and not a conversation that is threatening because I know a lot of parents that are coming at this being like no you're not allowed it's over you know it's very like it's rule based which it has to be to a degree but if you can also create some trust and some safety to have conversations about issues with it issues they see in their peers questions just trying to be curious um and trying to monitor and at least know and understand the social media that the kids are on so parents creating conversations that are about life part of which is this it has to do with social media rather than letting social media create the conversation in which parents may or may not be involved that coming back to that whole piece you know we have single mom single dads listening to this and it's a it's a challenge as a single parent it's just a challenge let alone social media that's a whole other arena but to consider to consider the time together at one's house an entire dinner table conversation let's say dinner table is a metaphor for that where you can put commas in the conversation you know fix it all the night you don't have to solve it all or understand it all it seems to me that to create a conversation as a family's parents and young people to create a conversation that includes something about social media so that you don't have to have that big conversation all the time it doesn't always become the flashpoint seems to me that would be helpful yeah yeah I think anytime we can have a conversation about something and not just wait till they're in trouble is always best I always say that I get parents I get emails from parents from everywhere between social media I don't like what they're posting on social media too I don't like the music they're listening to and my advice is to always make it a conversation and not so much of just you got caught doing this now you're in trouble and try to get out ahead of that and make it a conversation before it gets there we're we're going to give you McKenzie the the closing word here and for those of you listening are hard to make from McKenzie's Mac no one has Mac during the round here yeah I would just want to look at social media and seeing the positives of social media I think it's really easy to be very scared it's very I teach a class about social media to some of our parents here at our church and every time parents get so scared about all the bad things that can be associated with social media but I think there is a lot of good things that are in all the social media as well in finding where where students are creative where young people are creative trying to look for the positive things and ask about the positive things and not always living in fear about all the things that you know are negative and are hard and are you know dangerous about social media so that's what I would say so so when I read the story of Jesus I'm reading the story of what we would call today a millennial and he went to the places where people gathered he went to the dinner table he went to the wells that's where he went I what do you think he'd be on Twitter I'd like to think it would be on Twitter according to Twitter he already is so well there you go yeah and with that my dear friends we we sign off thanks a million guys for letting me appreciate it so much